• Hallo,

    wir prüfen das noch - die Software ist zwar schon soweit fertig, wir wollen das für Futaba aber auch anbieten. Das Problem ist: Bei Futaba gibts keinen Drucksensor :/X/

    Wir müssten einen Temperatursensor oder sowas draus machen...

  • Hello,


    I just purchased some PBS-P16's for use with my Graupner MZ-32.

    Could you please tell me what HoTT telemetry parameter is being used / provided to the receiver for this sensor?

    For some reason the pressure data is not being displayed for any parameter on the telemetry page so I am trying to figure out the cause.


    Note I have successfully used the PBS-V60 sensor with this radio.

    (i.e., the P16 has been configured to output the HoTT protocol using the Powerbox Terminal and USB Interface Adapter etc so I don't think that is the problem)


    Thanks,

    Gary


  • Thanks for the reply and info.


    I'm wondering if we should start a new topic specific to Graupner HoTT and the PBS-P16 as I believe this will be of interest to others as the MZ-32 is very popular here in the USA. The issue could very well be specific to Graupner radios and nobody else.


    I am unfamiliar with the MX-20 so may I ask you a few more questions?


    1) Could you provide an example showing something like 4 Bar?


    2) Is altitude the HoTT telemetry parameter being displayed?

    (it looks like it's one of the parameters from the GENERAL telemetry module but I can't tell which one)


    Note I live in Iowa so I wanted to reply while you were still at work / awake! :)

  • Okay, if I understand your comment that describes how you operated the MX-20 to display the pressure parameter which currently shows 0.0 Bar.


    My question is what does the MX-20 display if you actually pressure up the P16 sensor to 4 Bar?


    I'll try to find out what parameter is being displayed on the MX-20 via the manual and / or Graupner customer support.

    I'll also ask Graupner what data display on the MZ-32 corresponds to what is being shown on the MX-20.


    Attached are 4 pics. Following are their descriptions.


    1) MZ-32 displaying the General Air module telemetry data with no inputs.

    2) MZ-32 displaying the General Engine module telemetry data with no inputs.

    3) MZ-32 displaying the Electric Air module telemetry data with a PBS-V60 sensor connected to an AA battery.

    2) MZ-32 displaying the General Engine / Air module telemetry data with a PBS-P16 sensor pressured to 4 Bar.



    MZ-32 General Air Telemetry Module Parameters.bmp

    MZ-32 General Engine Telemetry Module Parameters.bmp

    MZ-32 PBS-P16 Telemetry Module Parameters.bmp

    MZ-32 PBS-V60 Telemetry Module Parameters.bmp


    As you can see, the altitude display is quite different when the radio is connected to the Graupner vs the PBS telemetry modules.

    Graupner data shows 0 whereas the PBS data shows -1640.

    That may or may not be a clue but that's why we need to understand exactly what parameter is being mapped from the PBS sensor to make it look like a Graupner telemetry parameter.


    If you could please pressure up the PBS-P16 to about 4 Bar and see what is displayed on the MX-20, that would be much appreciated.

  • Thanks Richard.


    I am starting to engage Graupner USA customer support to see what they can tell me regarding the MX-20 vs MZ-32 HoTT telemetry -- specifically for this parameter.

    I will let you know as soon as I find something out from them.


    Note the MX-20 isn't even sold in the USA -- only the MZ and MC series of Graupner radios.


    Thinking ahead, if we learn the PBS-P16 is indeed incompatible with the MZ-32 radio, is there any possibility that PBS could do a P16 firmware change to support the Graupner MZ radios? You know like something similar to the Futaba situation (i.e., map the data to a different parameter and ignore the display units).


    I don't expect an answer right now but that may end up being the real question!

  • Hello,


    the protocoll is abolutely the same in Graupner radios - must be, else nothing would work. So for sure the data is already in the radio. The question is if the MZ32 can show it. For this I would expect a update from Graupner for the radio to show all data they already have in the protocol.

    But I´m not sure a bout Graupner - seems their business is not doing well, closed the Europe HQ and the production in China. No idea what the future brings

  • Got some information from a user on the MZ-32 forum (i.e., not Graupner customer service).

    Definitely not what I wanted to learn but here it is...


    "The pressure value / parameter is part of Graupner’s General Air Module / General Engine Module data stream. While Graupner has added the pressure parameter (among some other new ones) to the GAM HoTT protocol a while back, it is not fully implemented in all transmitters' firmware for display and / or processing.

    The way these 3rd party devices work is that they emulate one of the Graupner Modules (i.e., GPS, GAM, EAM). In this case Powerbox uses the General Air Module address / ID as it is the only one supporting the data type. Essentially nothing wrong with that approach, except that you lose the ability to use a General Air Module at the same time (address conflict).

    The current TX firmware does not yet support the full use of this telemetry parameter. So far I have found that only the MZ-12 PRO can display the pressure value, none has the ability to fully process the parameter for Sensor Switch, Warnings, etc. As of now I have evaluated the MZ-24 PRO, MZ-12 PRO and the MZ-32. I have not evaluated any of the older / tray transmitters. So for the time being you will not be able to get it on the MZ-32."


    Based on this information, it looks like there is not a solution at the present time.


    I would like to continue this conversation via PM. Could you please advise and /or send me an email?

  • Hello,


    All above is correct.


    As already written, the GAM has a lot of other data fields which are not used with the P16. We will implement the pressure value also in the battery voltage fields. Not to much effort.


    If you want more and advanced telemetry in future: Have a look to the Core!

  • Hi Richard,


    Thank you for the feedback.

    I am happy to hear that it sounds like you are willing to make some I/O changes in order to support the newer Graupner MZ radios.

    That would be good if you want to capture market share of Graupner users in the USA.


    I very much want to be able to use the P16 with my MZ-32 for several reasons.


    First off, I have already purchased 4 of them and had plans to buy 8 more when available.

    I started out by buying the USB Interface Adapter and a PBS-V60 to check whether your devices would actually work with the 32.

    And to my delight, it did work fine so it gave me confidence the P16 would also work.

    Now, I'm kind of at a loss as to what to do with those P16's unless there's a way to resolve the issue.

    (believe me, I would much rather keep them and buy more if a P16 firmware update can be made)

    If that doesn't happen can I return them for a refund?


    Recognizing your customers will have different needs depending on what they fly, I want to explain what would work best for my situation.

    Hopefully that might factor into your design decisions as it's not just me that uses the Graupner telemetry this way.

    For reference, I build and fly giant scale gas engine warbirds. (I would be happy to show you a pic of my FW-190 if you like)

    The Graupner telemetry devices and parameters of interest on my projects are the GEM / GAM to provide RPM, voltage, temperature and GPS telemetry data.

    The one big item currently missing is air pressure of the pneumatic retracts.


    So my desire would be to not map the P16 pressure data to the GEM or GAM as that would cause me to lose other parameters of interest described above.

    A preferred alternative would be to map the P16 pressure data to the Temperature parameter of the AIR ESC module.

    That way I could use a GEM / GAM, GPS and AIR ESC all together.

    And if I really had my way since I live in the USA, the scaling would be 100 PSI = 100 deg C rather than BAR.


    I have an engineering background so that kind of gets me in trouble sometimes with my RC hobby.

    But I believe the software changes described above are minimal and fairly straightforward to implement.

    They amount to making three parameter changes in the code:

    1) change the device ID

    2) change the parameter ID

    3) change the scale factor on the parameter


    This post is turning into a book so I better quit now. :)


    One last question though, do you ever consider doing custom firmware builds per individual customer request?

    I was just thinking that if what is described above doesn't fit your standard product offering, would there be a way for me to purchase modified P16's that would work best for my needs?


    Kind regards,

    Gary Owen

    Iowa

  • Hello,

    using another module is not so easy - same as PSI. We would have to make options for the customer which is actually more time demanding as we can spend for a most likely obsolete radio system. Nobody knows if Graupner is going on with the business.


    As I told you this vintage telemetry systems like Graupner, JR or Spektrum with their fix sensor architecture have no future. There are two much more advanced systems on the market with open telemetry sensor architecture, it´s Jeti and PowerBox Core.


    Of course we do what we can to make the sensors usable for other systems as well, but we cannot spend more time to it as for our own system.


    We will have the GAM update next week I think. I will contact you because the Terminal doens´t give an update option yet, but I have another program which I can send you.

  • Thanks Richard.


    Yeh, I understand the situation regarding Graupner and its telemetry architecture limitations.

    It's really too bad if they falter with their business. (they have such a great legacy)

    Plus I am really pregnant with their equipment right now!!! haha

    (got lot's of it)


    And you need to stay in business too and focus on what allows you to do that by making the right priorities on what to spend your time on.

    I totally understand that.


    So I look forward to hearing from you soon regarding the GAM update. That will at least make the P16 usable with the MZ-32.

    (and I will most likely buy more P16's then)


    All the best to you!

    Gary

  • Hi Richard,


    Happy New Year!


    Was wondering if you have had any time after the holidays to think about the following?


    "As already written, the GAM has a lot of other data fields which are not used with the P16. We will implement the pressure value also in the battery voltage fields. Not to much effort."


    "We will have the GAM update next week I think. I will contact you because the Terminal doens´t give an update option yet, but I have another program which I can send you."


    Cheers,

    Gary