Powerbox Pioneer does not shut off

  • Yesterday I wanted to do the maiden of my new airplane but encountered an issue with my powerbox Pioneer. Initially all went well untill after a few times powering on and off the model a couple of times the Pioneer refuses to shut down. I pressed and held the button untill the led on the switch starts flashing, when I pressed the button again the led turns solid green again and the model stays on.

    The only way I could power off the model is by unpluggin the power leads, that is where I noticed the second strange thing. When I unplugg the battery 1 connector all switches down, even though battery 2 is still connected.


    Please advice... I can't connect the powerbox to the blue comm as the iOS app is still not available.


    Joris

  • Hello,


    I think, that you powered on the Pioneer with one battery, and afterward powered off and again on. There are two independent circuits, and the last state is saved into flash. It is only my opinion of course, but I'm sure that there is not issue with power supply. Best is to connect both batteries to Pioneer, switching on and off. Never I faced issue with that, and tested the Pioneer more than 5 hours in the air :-) in really lot of situations, re-initializing, adding receiver, removing receiver, changing type of receivers, adding GPS etc.

    I'm sure that you can go to maiden fly :-)

    rudi

  • Then this can be critical if you use it with BEC from an ESC and Backup-Battery.

    If you adjust anything on the desk , normally the ESC-Battery isn't connected due to safety reasons.

    So if you then switch on with the Backup only you are running into problems as soon as you use the ESC again.


    May be I am wrong, but this would be interesting to know.

    Mit freundlichen Grüssen

    Kai Wimmer
    Frage: Ist ein Fliegen ohne Telemetrie möglich ? --> Antwort: Möglich ja, aber heutzutage nicht mehr sinnvoll !

  • Hello,


    I think, that you powered on the Pioneer with one battery, and afterward powered off and again on. There are two independent circuits, and the last state is saved into flash... :-)

    rudi

    Connect only one battery and switch it. Then they are synchronous again.

    Suggest adding a note describing this when updating manual. I struggled with this as well.


    Thanks Joris for posting and thanks Rudolf & Richard for answering :-)

    Richard  Rudi  Adam Strong


    Witnessed a fellow PowerBox modeler lose a plane today from this issue. 2 batteries plugged in; no voltage or capacity telemetry widget configured. Assumed 2 battery capacity run time, but Pioneer only running on 1 battery. Plane crashed with low voltage condition.


    Because I had previously encountered the odd power off behavior I was aware of the 2 independent circuits. Based on that, I was able to successfully re-sync his crashed Pioneer for 2 battery support and program battery telemetry to explain how it works.


    Many setup their model (bind, program, etc.) on the bench with 1 battery without knowing that this state is saved. They then plug in 2nd battery to fly assuming Pioneer automatically uses both. On PowerBox units with screen the single battery condition would immediately be obvious, but Pioneer requires a CORE widget which all modelers may not initially be familiar with.


    Suggestions:

    - Can the Pioneer logic be changed to auto-detect 2nd battery (even if a single battery was previously used)?

    - Can manual be updated to explicitly state - "If you intend to fly with 2 batteries, always power on/off with 2 batteries"

    - Update CORE to auto-create battery telemetry widgets when sensor scan detects Pioneer


    Any of these and perhaps other solutions may save models :-)


    Cheers

  • Hello,


    First: You don´t need a Core to find out that only one battery is on. Every radio with telemetrie shows that.


    I explain it again, even I did it several times:


    1. The logic cannot be changed without changing the hardware. This affectes that the two independend systems are no longer independend

    2. Yes, but people on the airfield will not remember to that as I understand this issues happens accidently. Even it´s accidently you should see that something is wrong as once you connect both batteries (with different switch status) you cannot turn the system off anymore.

    3. I think it´s a standard if you have a telemetry radio and a telemetry device to make it visible on the radio

  • Hello,


    despite and even the explanation from Richard, honestly, I'm unable to understand the problem, help me please to understand that.


    I'm using Pioneer in two planes, Jet and 2.3m Extra, and always, really always after switching ON checking if I got the telemetry information from BOTH batteries. And always got :-) But in case, if I will see, that something is missing, newer will take off, really.

    Therefore how happened that your battery was discharged and the second was not used? Both batteries you saw on telemetry?


    I'm always sad if a model crashed, therefore curious what was the real root cause

    Cheers

    rudi

  • Thanks for the responses!


    Richard

    1. Thanks for explaining the h/w limitation

    2. I’m guessing that some will setup their Pioneer outside of model on the bench and use only 1 battery without awareness that battery connection state persist in flash. In this case, when the 2nd battery was connected the Pioneer switch behaviour was noticed, but the assumption was faulty switch, not single battery. Suggestion: Update manual explaining battery connectivity and/or switch LED behavior.

    3. Agree CORE displayed battery telemetry is probably easiest path, but also recognize that not every modeler is familiar or comfortable with creating. If CORE would auto-create battery related (voltage, cap, etc) widgets upon Pioneer detect would be helpful.


    Rudi - agree battery telemetry widget is a great proxy for Pioneer display and over time many/most PB CORE users will setup. My suggestion above targets those who may not yet be up to speed on telemetry setup and use and assume 2 battery capacity whenever 2 are plugged in based on familiarity with other PB backers.


    Cheers

  • Hi Mark

    I am not an expert with Powerbox but after reading your concerns I decided to check my pioneer. I did all of my setup with one battery connected to the pioneer on the bench, I just now installed 2 batteries for the first time and it powered up just fine reading back the duel pack voltage and capacity. Powered off without any issues. I reset the capacities using a momentary button (ch16) because one side was out of sync due to setup.

    Kindly in my opinion, I don’t see the need for automatic telemetry setup and don’t think it’s necessary.

    I think the simplest thing to remember is to use the switch to turn off the pioneer before removing the battery when using only 1 battery for power.


    All the best and respect

    Rich


  • Thanks Rich. Here’s the edge case that creates the issue -


    - connect batt1; power up

    - disconnect batt 1

    - connect batt 1 + batt 2

    - power up

    - Pioneer battery 1 active; battery 2 offline although physically connected (also Pioneer won’t power down)


    On the other backers, the user explicitly activates each battery and there is positive feedback from the switch (1 LED/battery) and the display, with Pioneer of course no screen and a single LED. This makes telemetry super important, although some new users may not be aware of importance or how to set up.


    Net - there exist Pioneer conditions where user may assume combined battery capacity when only 1 available which amplifies the need for battery telemetry widget. Given this, why not explicitly inform Pioneer customers in manual, online or perhaps, auto-create widget? Might be helpful for those new to CORE, new to Pioneer and/or new to the value of telemetry. Another idea might be to more clearly explain switch LED behavior - “if long press followed by short press does not result in powering off, then…”, “solid green means at least 1 battery, check CORE telemetry to confirm battery 2…”, “fast blink means…”

  • Hello,


    I had the same issue when I switched on my plane at the 4th flight today. I noticed there was something wrong because I had a warning on the transmitter telling 0v at one of the inputs. I disconnected one of the batteries, switched off as mentioned above and it's running fine again.


    what I don't understand is why it happened. I didn't remove one of the 2 batteries at all. So why were the 2 inputs suddenly not synchronous anymore ? Connections of the batteries to the pioneer are ok and I didn't have any alarm with a low battery input during the previous flights.


    any thoughts ?


    thank you

    Gilles

  • Hello,


    Thank you for the feedback. I made a few more flights this morning and it did not happen again.


    Yesterday both batteries were not at the same charge level and had different voltage values. Could that explain the issue ?


    Thank you

    Gilles